[that's his simple answer, and he trusts that the exchange will come. at this point, shoma's shown that he has intelligence and perseverance—without question, that's the type of individual that scien would welcome into the institute.
for better or worse.
but he has a question that's been on the tip of his tongue, that's had him curious since they first began their thought experiments. there's just been too many people around.]
Who is it?
The person you're trying to save.
[himself? or someone else? or is it the whole world?
perhaps scien is off his mark - but he can't help but wonder what a boy this young might be searching for, and what he could need, to even have his wondering bring him to someone like scien brofiise. someone who saves others, but at such high costs.]
[ he isn't wrong. shoma's an introvert, and shoma's someone who tends to do his best work alone, but he has intelligence and perseverance to back him up the entire way. half the time, he's pretty sure it's the only thing that keeps him going. what would he do if he let himself just...not pursue these questions? what would happen if he didn't bother trying to understand things further?
he both did and did not expect this question. he already knows the answer won't be satisfactory either, but since he doesn't have another form of payment at the moment he's fine giving it away. ]
It's unsalvageable. [ this is matter-of-fact and strangely serious for someone his age, like a statement with zero wiggle room. ] ...it's nothing like a world plagued by a disease that kills people before they hit twenty-three. I just...like to ask to fully understand things. How people come to conclusions and what lengths people will go to.
[ are the answers the same across universes? or do circumstances change a person's drive to take other people down with them? ]
scien thinks of all the researchers who come to the institute, desperate to find a cure because one of their loved ones is already dying - and they don't want to be a reliver, even though that's the very thing they study. he thinks they don't plan ahead enough. everything and everyone dies. even if his understanding of death is warped by his own technology, he knows that if he's not careful, finality will come for him as well.
so he doesn't argue, and he doesn't reassure shoma that everything will work out.]
Then do you have no goal?
[he asks out of pure curiosity. is there an endpoint to the understanding? is there a decision shoma will have to make in the future? or is this simple wondering?
for whatever reason, scien doubts it's the latter. there must be an origin point.]
[ wouldn't it be funny if he just said he was simply wondering?
but that would be an insult to scien's intelligence, he thinks. the man isn't stupid, and shoma figures he's already deduced there is a specific reason for the somewhat pointed and calculated questions. kids don't just ask about this sort of thing for their own curiosity and he knows that.
on the other hand, calling it a "goal" is a little lofty when he doesn't know if that counts. to shoma, a goal is an attainable thing with results you can show off when you're done. while he has something he wants to accomplish in understanding all of this...it feels a little foolish to admit it only impacts one person.
he debates lying about it and making up a goal to sounds more put together, but he also figures scien will see through that, too. so he's standing still, watching him for the time being. ]
I do. [ he admits that much. ] But in order to even see if the goal itself is attainable, I want to start from the roots and work my way out. [ and yet the goal is still not about achieving immortality or extending a life force. ] When I figure out that much, I can elaborate.
[he lets the words play around in his head - the dichotomy between 'it's unsalvageable' and 'if it's attainable'. if saving is out of the question, then does that leave:] An act of creation?
[something to replace that was lost, but not necessarily exactly the same as reviving someone from the dead? shoma has already said that he'll elaborate later, but scien finds himself intrigued now. he does enjoy puzzles, after all.]
Hm... Do as you please.
[but he'd said that he doesn't mind engaging in thought experiments.]
[ he plans to, thanks. isn't it nice to actually have a choice?
...this is a pattern shoma recognizes. he gets caught up in solving something, or finding an answer, and it leads him to someone or something. they offer him something he didn't even know he was looking for at the time, something that might help change his situation and how he feels about so many things, and he starts down the path of wanting to listen to that person, learn from them, and chase after that goal.
he'd pulled himself out of it the first time, for the most part. every now and then he finds his brain drifting back to that old ideology that he left behind when the world became too much. this time, he wonders how far this path will take him. he finds himself wanting scien to tell him these things, and he finds he has a lot of questions he wants to pick apart, rearrange, and put back together for an answer.
it's half the reason he doesn't just walk away now when he could take this as a dismissal. ]
That's closer, I think. [ he considers this. ] What would you call changing something from something already created?
It depends on what the 'something already created' is. I understand you're being intentionally vague, but it means what you get in return will be broad hypotheticals rather than concretes.
[and it's not that scien minds - but shoma already admitted that he has a goal, and scien is someone who prioritizes efficiency. there will always be a part of him that will push to build a blueprint, even if it's never used. engage in the thought experiment and then discard it when it no longer serves you]
Consider my concretes another payment when I come back with results. [ i.e. he doesn't mind explaining more when he actually has information about the ship and what can possibly be done. i have no idea if they'll accomplish anything w0 but it's fine. ]
Transformation's a good word. I would agree with that. [ ... ] Let me ask you this. Do you think there's any end point where an end result can no longer be changed, reverted, or transformed?
[he nods in agreement - that's fine. he doesn't care enough to push. as for the question:]
Yes.
Take Reliver technology for example: once the details of it breach containment of my strict surveillance, others in the world will have access to cloning technology. It will be replicated and repeated for everyone who is afraid of dying, which is most people even if they refuse to admit it. Or worse, governments will use it to enhance manpower for military conquests. [which is something that makes scien frown, clear distaste for the idea] That blueprint can never leave the Institute, or else it will spell out an era of war and societal collapse. Human greed will make it inevitable.
The only exception to this idea is time travel - but by nature of its process, that makes it so that an end point is never an end point for the person experiencing it.
[since you can always just try again if you don't like the results, but it'll just create a branching reality so]
[ time travel's a whole other can of worms and while there are, actually, a few things he would like to go back and fix he knows that's impossible and it can't happen.
"maybe he's out there somewhere in another universe." "yeah. he lives on happily somewhere."
the multiverse theory's nice to believe in, if only because he can't let himself get stuck still thinking about that part of the past.
this answer also makes sense, but he shakes his head a little. ]
And if the Reliver technology never leaves your hands and it's only monitored by you, do you think there's an end point where the results can no longer be changed, reverted or transformed? Dahut said you basically live on forever if you want to, but is it possible to reach an end where you can't proceed or go back a step if you wanted to?
Define your terms. 'Reach an end', 'results can no longer be changed'... Provide an example, even if it is not the situation that you have in mind. Life, in and of itself, is linear by default.
The primary 'end' is death. Do you mean a key event?
A key event. Let's say you have a clone, and that clone is permanently altered whether by injury or otherwise. [ this is not a dig at scien's armless body, it's just a close enough example. ] When you create a new clone, is it possible to go back to the way you originally were before those changes were made, or is that a change that can no longer be reversed because it's a permanent part of the body going forward?
Ah, no. As soon as another Reliver of myself is created, the arm will be restored. Dahut has been nagging me to get started on the process...
[he will just use himself as an example, because it's relevant]
You asked about genetics, correct? Same principle. If you are born with two arms, the Reliver body will grant you two arms once the process begins, even if you lost both during the course of your life. Injury and deformations gained over the course of life are healed, whether that be limb loss, burns, scars, whatever it is.
...[ well...that's an answer he was curious about that scien doesn't know is related to a few things, so there's another lull of silence. the example helps clarify things, and yet shoma's still frowning in thought. ]
So the Reliver technology is reading your genetic code rather than anything that's occurred during the body's lifetime. The original model and then duplicating it. [ ...ah. ] That's good for what you need it for.
[ ... ]
Dahut maybe has a point. Having two arms seems easier. [ this is said solely because he's backflipping from what he's really thinking about, actually. ]
[ he's not going to tell a grown man to put his own arm back, even if he doesn't fully get why he wouldn't on his own. nevertheless, he figures scien must have his reasons. ]
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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[that's his simple answer, and he trusts that the exchange will come. at this point, shoma's shown that he has intelligence and perseverance—without question, that's the type of individual that scien would welcome into the institute.
for better or worse.
but he has a question that's been on the tip of his tongue, that's had him curious since they first began their thought experiments. there's just been too many people around.]
Who is it?
The person you're trying to save.
[himself? or someone else? or is it the whole world?
perhaps scien is off his mark - but he can't help but wonder what a boy this young might be searching for, and what he could need, to even have his wondering bring him to someone like scien brofiise. someone who saves others, but at such high costs.]
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he both did and did not expect this question. he already knows the answer won't be satisfactory either, but since he doesn't have another form of payment at the moment he's fine giving it away. ]
It's unsalvageable. [ this is matter-of-fact and strangely serious for someone his age, like a statement with zero wiggle room. ] ...it's nothing like a world plagued by a disease that kills people before they hit twenty-three. I just...like to ask to fully understand things. How people come to conclusions and what lengths people will go to.
[ are the answers the same across universes? or do circumstances change a person's drive to take other people down with them? ]
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scien thinks of all the researchers who come to the institute, desperate to find a cure because one of their loved ones is already dying - and they don't want to be a reliver, even though that's the very thing they study. he thinks they don't plan ahead enough. everything and everyone dies. even if his understanding of death is warped by his own technology, he knows that if he's not careful, finality will come for him as well.
so he doesn't argue, and he doesn't reassure shoma that everything will work out.]
Then do you have no goal?
[he asks out of pure curiosity. is there an endpoint to the understanding? is there a decision shoma will have to make in the future? or is this simple wondering?
for whatever reason, scien doubts it's the latter. there must be an origin point.]
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but that would be an insult to scien's intelligence, he thinks. the man isn't stupid, and shoma figures he's already deduced there is a specific reason for the somewhat pointed and calculated questions. kids don't just ask about this sort of thing for their own curiosity and he knows that.
on the other hand, calling it a "goal" is a little lofty when he doesn't know if that counts. to shoma, a goal is an attainable thing with results you can show off when you're done. while he has something he wants to accomplish in understanding all of this...it feels a little foolish to admit it only impacts one person.
he debates lying about it and making up a goal to sounds more put together, but he also figures scien will see through that, too. so he's standing still, watching him for the time being. ]
I do. [ he admits that much. ] But in order to even see if the goal itself is attainable, I want to start from the roots and work my way out. [ and yet the goal is still not about achieving immortality or extending a life force. ] When I figure out that much, I can elaborate.
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[he lets the words play around in his head - the dichotomy between 'it's unsalvageable' and 'if it's attainable'. if saving is out of the question, then does that leave:] An act of creation?
[something to replace that was lost, but not necessarily exactly the same as reviving someone from the dead? shoma has already said that he'll elaborate later, but scien finds himself intrigued now. he does enjoy puzzles, after all.]
Hm... Do as you please.
[but he'd said that he doesn't mind engaging in thought experiments.]
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...this is a pattern shoma recognizes. he gets caught up in solving something, or finding an answer, and it leads him to someone or something. they offer him something he didn't even know he was looking for at the time, something that might help change his situation and how he feels about so many things, and he starts down the path of wanting to listen to that person, learn from them, and chase after that goal.
he'd pulled himself out of it the first time, for the most part. every now and then he finds his brain drifting back to that old ideology that he left behind when the world became too much. this time, he wonders how far this path will take him. he finds himself wanting scien to tell him these things, and he finds he has a lot of questions he wants to pick apart, rearrange, and put back together for an answer.
it's half the reason he doesn't just walk away now when he could take this as a dismissal. ]
That's closer, I think. [ he considers this. ] What would you call changing something from something already created?
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It depends on what the 'something already created' is. I understand you're being intentionally vague, but it means what you get in return will be broad hypotheticals rather than concretes.
[and it's not that scien minds - but shoma already admitted that he has a goal, and scien is someone who prioritizes efficiency. there will always be a part of him that will push to build a blueprint, even if it's never used. engage in the thought experiment and then discard it when it no longer serves you]
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Transformation's a good word. I would agree with that. [ ... ] Let me ask you this. Do you think there's any end point where an end result can no longer be changed, reverted, or transformed?
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Yes.
Take Reliver technology for example: once the details of it breach containment of my strict surveillance, others in the world will have access to cloning technology. It will be replicated and repeated for everyone who is afraid of dying, which is most people even if they refuse to admit it. Or worse, governments will use it to enhance manpower for military conquests. [which is something that makes scien frown, clear distaste for the idea] That blueprint can never leave the Institute, or else it will spell out an era of war and societal collapse. Human greed will make it inevitable.
The only exception to this idea is time travel - but by nature of its process, that makes it so that an end point is never an end point for the person experiencing it.
[since you can always just try again if you don't like the results, but it'll just create a branching reality so]
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"maybe he's out there somewhere in another universe."
"yeah. he lives on happily somewhere."
the multiverse theory's nice to believe in, if only because he can't let himself get stuck still thinking about that part of the past.
this answer also makes sense, but he shakes his head a little. ]
And if the Reliver technology never leaves your hands and it's only monitored by you, do you think there's an end point where the results can no longer be changed, reverted or transformed? Dahut said you basically live on forever if you want to, but is it possible to reach an end where you can't proceed or go back a step if you wanted to?
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The primary 'end' is death. Do you mean a key event?
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A key event. Let's say you have a clone, and that clone is permanently altered whether by injury or otherwise. [ this is not a dig at scien's armless body, it's just a close enough example. ] When you create a new clone, is it possible to go back to the way you originally were before those changes were made, or is that a change that can no longer be reversed because it's a permanent part of the body going forward?
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[he will just use himself as an example, because it's relevant]
You asked about genetics, correct? Same principle. If you are born with two arms, the Reliver body will grant you two arms once the process begins, even if you lost both during the course of your life. Injury and deformations gained over the course of life are healed, whether that be limb loss, burns, scars, whatever it is.
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So the Reliver technology is reading your genetic code rather than anything that's occurred during the body's lifetime. The original model and then duplicating it. [ ...ah. ] That's good for what you need it for.
[ ... ]
Dahut maybe has a point. Having two arms seems easier. [ this is said solely because he's backflipping from what he's really thinking about, actually. ]
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It doesn't, but I don't trust anyone else's technology to grant one to me.
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[ ...can he even replicate the reliver technology here? ]
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[honestly?]
This version of me will probably never experience having an arm again.
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...how long has it been missing?
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A few weeks now...?
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exhausting. ]
Incredibly incompetent of Nut & Bolt to ask a guy with one arm to be delivering packages for eight weeks.
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[he would if he cared to but
he doesn't]
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But actually doing it and pretending to be invested is my job now, so...we'll see where it goes.
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It's not a perfect example, since Dahut is truly invested in his work, but you can talk to him about it.
That sense of duplicity he has, that's allowed him to get so far.
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He has his uses.
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